It is currently Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:19 pm




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 
 Gerry Matatics 
Author Message
Site Admin

Joined: Tue May 16, 2006 2:30 pm
Posts: 4334
New post Gerry Matatics
Hello all,

I understand that there are some who find Gerry's newest views plausible and you may wish to discuss them here.

I'm sorry, but life is too short.

This whole "jurisdiction" theme is a red herring. The traditional clergy - the respectable ones anyway - do not claim jurisdiction. They do not claim to have a mission from the Church, in the canonical sense that matters. They do not claim to have authority over us. They are quite clear that they act at our request, and that the only jurisdiction they can lay claim to is that which is supplied for each act, under condition of "danger of death." This is a world away from habitual jurisdiction.

In principle their acts are essentially on the same basis as Gerry's own preaching of the faith. He has no mission either, yet if he presents Christian doctrine publicly he does not breach the law. To all those who demand to know "Who sent the traditional clergy?" we respond, "Who sent YOU?"

If there is a fault in the general view of the traditional clergy, it is in not claiming habitual jurisdiction. That is, it would be immeasurably better if Bishop Rangel had declared the see of Campos vacant in 1991 and assumed the office himself, on the basis of the election of the remaining Catholic clergy of the diocese. This would have been a classical and perfectly defensible act, with precedent in the history of the Church and no great difficulty even with the text of canon law (and certainly none with the intention of the lawgiver). This would have been done with the explicit statement that the approval of the Roman Pontiff is presumed until he appears and gives his actual decision.

Likewise the clergy in other places could make the case against their local modernist prelate, ideally by issuing a canonical admonition first, then proceed to elect a bishop, and have the SSPX or other bishops consecrate him, and thus begin the restoration of the hierarchy.

Such clear, canonically regular, and eminently defensible procedures would force the Novus bishops to face the reality of the crisis and decide to which church they really wish to belong. It would be likely that some of them would convert under such pressure, and could be conditionally re-consecrated and take their places as undoubted Successors of the Apostles.

But none of this makes the traditional clergy today illegitimate. The absence of a canonical mission does not make them non-Catholics, and it does not make their ministrations unlawful. If a Jew can lawfully baptise under canon law, as he can in danger of death, then a Catholic priest can offer the Holy Sacrifice without fearing that he acts illegitimately. If a half-instructed convert like Gerry can lawfully preach the faith, then so can a cradle-Catholic priest who has undergone six years of training in a professional institute of formation.

If you find Gerry's latest views plausible and you think that those who decline to debate him are hiding from the truth, then so be it.

If Gerry reads this, I have a message for him: Start again, Gerry, from scratch. You have no idea what you're talking about, and you bear a grave responsibility before God for whatever damage you do.

_________________
In Christ our King.


Tue Jun 19, 2012 3:36 am
Profile E-mail

Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2011 12:31 am
Posts: 696
Location: Moscow, Idaho, U.S.A.
New post Re: Gerry Matatics
I have received several missives via e-mail recently from Gerry, and I must confess to being rather disturbed at his unexpressed belief that his ideas on certain matters of interest to us are Catholic....simply because he holds them.

At one of his more recent gatherings in Spokane, Washington which my Wife and I attended, he had the book, "The 1917 Pio-Benedictine Code of Canon Law" by Dr. Peters available for sale. I pointed out to him Canon 2261 paragraph 2 and its very direct implications against his present "Home Alone" position, and was totally ignored. I then mentioned the same thing in an e-mail directly to him, and was ignored yet again.

I then got an e-mail from him containing an advertisement for another talk detailing (as I understood it) that anyone of us who has ever had anything whatever to do with valid priests who have ever offered the NO are as apostate as they are.

This idea, of course, is very UN-Catholic, uncharitable, and not even logical.

Although Gerry is an excellent speaker, a master debater, and a very good person, overall, he appears to retain the Protestant Minister's idea that whatever he says or thinks with regard to doctrine is correct, whether it can stand the test of a truly Catholic examination or not.

I have urged him in more than one e-mail to do some very thorough studying of approved Catholic authors on various subjects of present interest, and have, again, been what appears to me to be pointedly ignored.

He could do much good if he would only learn a lot of humility and completely lose the dregs of his protestantism which are severely coloring his efforts.

I think we should pray very hard for him that he wakes up and redirects his efforts in a more Catholic direction.

Perhaps if we put him under the direct intervention of St. Joseph, he would begin to straighten up.

As it is, in my opinion, he is doing much damage to the remnant Church.

_________________
Kenneth G. Gordon


Tue Jun 19, 2012 4:07 pm
Profile E-mail

Joined: Sat May 20, 2006 11:46 pm
Posts: 728
Location: Western Washington, USA
New post Re: Gerry Matatics
Pax Christi !

Ken,

Excellent advice and a nice display of Catholic charity towards Gerry. I also have known Gerry for many years. I met him during his CMRI Mount visit back in 1995. Then I witnessed with much dismay his" camp" jumping. What is most problematic, in my view, is that while his is in one " Camp ", any one not in that Camp he appears to hold in " error" and in some cases hold them to be heretics. After the Mount, along the way,he went to the Saint Benedict Center, then many other Camps ( SSPV, SGG, Dimond Brothers et all ) , not the least of which one was also the SSPX, which he now holds in complete disdain. Today or at least for the past 2 years he appears to be settling permanently into the Hutton Gibson brand of " Home Alone"..

I had thought once he embraced the Sede position his "camping" days would have been over :) But alas not to be.

Let's indeed pray for Gerry, his " not SENT" dogmatic and binding stance ( follow me or die) on matters open to debate can and will have very serious consequences .

In Xto,
Vincent


Tue Jun 19, 2012 8:11 pm
Profile
Site Admin

Joined: Tue May 16, 2006 2:30 pm
Posts: 4334
New post Re: Gerry Matatics
Do either of you believe he's having any real influence? I got the impression a few years ago that he had finally lost his credibility with potential audiences.

_________________
In Christ our King.


Wed Jun 20, 2012 12:52 am
Profile E-mail

Joined: Sat May 20, 2006 11:46 pm
Posts: 728
Location: Western Washington, USA
New post Re: Gerry Matatics
Pax Christi !

Quote:
Do either of you believe he's having any real influence? I got the impression a few years ago that he had finally lost his credibility with potential audiences.


John- I think yes, he still gets people attending his globetrotting talks. I agree with you, he certainly has lost his credibility with me, and I hope its he same with most if not all traditional catholic that cross his path.

In Xto,
Vincent


Wed Jun 20, 2012 12:59 am
Profile

Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2011 12:31 am
Posts: 696
Location: Moscow, Idaho, U.S.A.
New post Re: Gerry Matatics
John Lane wrote:
Do either of you believe he's having any real influence?

REAL influence? Yes, amongst those who think like him i.e., home aloners. But at the talk we attended in Spokane, it was quite clear that his audience had shrunk very, very noticeably from what it was at previous talks.

John Lane wrote:
I got the impression a few years ago that he had finally lost his credibility with potential audiences.

Well, it is clear he has lost all of his credibility with almost everyone who might be considered "mainstream" traditionalists.

As you say, he REALLY needs to drop back to square one, begin reading GOOD Catholic catechisms, like the Catechism of the Council of Trent, and other such books, and learn how to be a real, humble, Catholic. In my opinion, he carries along too much baggage from his protestant minister days.

He also needs to pray very assiduously to St. Joseph, Our Lady, and the Holy Ghost for both humility and wisdom. He is severely lacking in both.

The way I figure it, in my own case, if I arrive at a conclusion on Catholic doctrine or theology, or an interpretation of scripture, or canon law, on my own, without reference to those who know more than I, then it is 100% certain my conclusions are wrong. If I've thought of it, it is wrong, period.

_________________
Kenneth G. Gordon


Wed Jun 20, 2012 4:32 am
Profile E-mail

Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 3:57 am
Posts: 391
Location: Indiana, USA
New post Re: Gerry Matatics
John Lane wrote:
Do either of you believe he's having any real influence? I got the impression a few years ago that he had finally lost his credibility with potential audiences.


He sends me (and many, many others, I am sure) emails and letters periodically in which he asks for donations for some project or other and, in return, I will receive his EXPLOSIVE new talks in which he explains, IN DEPTH, what the Church teaches which will have GRAVE RAMMIFICATIONS for many traditional clergy and DEMOLISHES John Lane's theories and absolutely proves that every traditional priest I have ever heard of (one email lists just about all of them) are ILLIGITIMATE and whose orders are SERIOUSLY UNDERMINED.

I do think that he has lost just about all of his influence with these emails and letters with everyone except, perhaps, the used car salesmen constituency.

The only thing he is doing that I still think anyone listens to is his history series that Judith Sharpe posts on her ISOC website entitled, "The Plot against the Church." The only reason I still listen to this is because I have actually heard or read many confirmations of some of what he says here from other sources. I'll stop listening to this series if he begins declare that all Catholics must become home-aloners. Somehow, though, I think Mrs. Sharpe would end the series as well.

It is unfortunate that Mr. Matatics and, by the way, Dr. Droleskey, have become magisteriums on their own declaring definitively what everyone else is to believe--even when their declarations have only themselves as their authority.


Wed Jun 20, 2012 2:26 pm
Profile

Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2011 12:31 am
Posts: 696
Location: Moscow, Idaho, U.S.A.
New post Re: Gerry Matatics
TKGS: an excellent assessment, and I agree with every word in it. Thank you.

_________________
Kenneth G. Gordon


Wed Jun 20, 2012 3:49 pm
Profile E-mail

Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 9:03 pm
Posts: 515
New post Re: Gerry Matatics
Ken Gordon wrote:
The way I figure it, in my own case, if I arrive at a conclusion on Catholic doctrine or theology, or an interpretation of scripture, or canon law, on my own, without reference to those who know more than I, then it is 100% certain my conclusions are wrong. If I've thought of it, it is wrong, period.

I think the same way. We simply cannot trust ourselves to draw conclusions from first sources. I am always amazed at the number of people who have absolutely no fear in trusting themselves and will argue with multiple theological sources that clearly oppose their own conclusions.


Wed Jun 20, 2012 3:59 pm
Profile

Joined: Sat May 20, 2006 11:46 pm
Posts: 728
Location: Western Washington, USA
New post Re: Gerry Matatics
Pax Christi !

Regarding the" hard line" Home Alone position, it appears to me that it is liken to the spiritual affliction of Scrupulosity, but applied to " Holy Orders".
Some of these well meaning and devout folks, are never satisfied a cleric has the right " credentials", it is a constant, check, and re-check, doubt, more doubt, reasoning process . Some assert Archbishop Lefebvre never had valid Episcopal orders because his consecrating Bishops was a suspected Mason.

In the end, I used to think they doubted the church’s Sacramental teachings on intention and validity, or did not understand said teachings. But after more exposure to this position, it really appears to me that it is a hyper-scrupulous application of the Church Sacramental teachings, and this seems to always leave them in “ doubt”.

I have a few Home Alone friends, and they are very sincere and companionate souls, trying their best to practice the Holy Catholic Faith. I just wish they would feel comfortable going to Holy Mass more often :)

In Xto,
Vincent


Thu Jul 05, 2012 8:00 pm
Profile

Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2012 10:43 am
Posts: 38
New post Re: Gerry Matatics
I went from an ex-NO Catholic to quasi-home-aloneism after I started to read hutton Gibson's works. This is not a bad place to start, I say this because if I had of started with the SSPX position I feel I may have softened up to the diocene Motu position and from there who knows. In fact there were times when I thought why not just go to the Catholic Church around the corner, "the priest is a nice guy, all our neighbors go there, why not?" At this point I went back and re-read H Gibson's writings and was brought very quickly back to my position. Luckily after my second daughter was born I talked to a traditional bishop, in fact I talked to his mother first who gave me his number. I was so impressed by his mom that I almost instantly trusted the bishop. Anyhow he was independent but told me I should go to the SSPX if it's available and have the priest baptize my yet unborn daughter. I mean home-aloneism might be an option for Hutton Gibson who had the traditional mass for the better part of his life but for a newbie has never even been to the traditional mass, has never heard the traditional chants, I think its impossible. We have to make use of what is available but then again everyone has to come to their own conclusions. Someimes I feel like I fell through a series of cracks to get where I am.


Sun Jul 15, 2012 12:00 pm
Profile E-mail

Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2011 12:31 am
Posts: 696
Location: Moscow, Idaho, U.S.A.
New post Re: Gerry Matatics
Apparently we are having yet another problem or two with Mr. Matatics: he has, apparently, recently told a friend of ours that (at least) Canon 2261 paragraph 2 is no longer in effect.

This Canon, of course, knocks the entire idea of Home Alone-ism completely into a cocked hat. Probably why he denies its force.

He must be the one and only Pope Gerry I. I certainly hope he is the last.

So many of these "converts" go completely off the deep end. They really never lose their protestant penchant for believing that the Holy Ghost talks directly to them alone. And those, like him, who received a large share of their training from a Protestant school for ministers (Presbyterians, in his case) seem to be the worst.

I pray that they, eventually, learn humility...which according to the Catholic Encyclopedia is, "...a uniquely Catholic virtue, not understood in the least by protestants, nor even by many Catholics..."

_________________
Kenneth G. Gordon


Thu Aug 02, 2012 11:54 pm
Profile E-mail

Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2011 5:14 pm
Posts: 210
New post Re: Gerry Matatics
Yes it is very unfortunate that such a master debater has gone off like that. Let us pray for him, I just don't see how he can actually claim the 4 marks of the Church without any jurisdiction...

Can anyone tell me how they reconcile traditional teaching on jurisdiction with the Home Alone position?

Just curious I might have read some material, but I really can't recall. Thanks.

_________________
Laudare, Benedicere et predicare...
Bitcoin donations: 15aKZ5oPzRWVubqgSceK6DifzwtzJ6MRpv


Sat Dec 22, 2012 2:13 am
Profile E-mail
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 10 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group.
Designed by Vjacheslav Trushkin for Free Forums/DivisionCore.