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 Teresa Stanfill Benns and the home alone defense 
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Joined: Wed Feb 05, 2014 1:21 am
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New post Teresa Stanfill Benns and the home alone defense
So my brother has also embraced the SV position, however, he has been convinced by the position put forward by Teresa Stanfill Benns on the website, betrayedcatholics.com. I must admit, the rebuttals against SV and SSPX clergy are quite compelling. Has anyone taken the time to see the argumentation and can a suitable rebuttal be offered? My brother amd I have had some heated discussions on this and I think I'm over my head on this.


Side note: I'm fully aware of Mrs. Benns involvement with electing "Pope" Michael. I don't think it's germaine to the topic.


Tue May 27, 2014 3:29 am
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New post Re: Teresa Stanfill Benns and the home alone defense
Life is too short to go looking at entire Web sites and trying to refute them, especially by people with as little credibility as that, but if you can put forward some proposition with Mrs Benns' proof, we'll see what we have to say about it.

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Tue May 27, 2014 3:31 am
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New post Re: Teresa Stanfill Benns and the home alone defense
Have you read this: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1599 ?

It was written by a member here, Joe Cupertino. It deals not with Benns specifically, but with Barbara Linaburg. Nevertheless, you'll find an overlap in arguments between the two so I'm sure reading Joe Cupertino's work would serve you well.

It's astounding the kind of paralytic blindness these women exemplify in their "arguments." They seem to unfailingly gloss over every necessary distinction in pursuit of affirming their pre-determined positions.


Tue May 27, 2014 3:40 am
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New post Re: Teresa Stanfill Benns and the home alone defense
John Lane wrote:
Life is too short to go looking at entire Web sites and trying to refute them, especially by people with as little credibility as that, but if you can put forward some proposition with Mrs Benns' proof, we'll see what we have to say about it.



Hi John. Here is an article she wrote:


http://betrayedcatholics.com/wpcms/cata ... tionalist/


Tue May 27, 2014 3:50 am
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New post Re: Teresa Stanfill Benns and the home alone defense
Mithrandylan wrote:
Have you read this: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1599 ?

It was written by a member here, Joe Cupertino. It deals not with Benns specifically, but with Barbara Linaburg. Nevertheless, you'll find an overlap in arguments between the two so I'm sure reading Joe Cupertino's work would serve you well.

It's astounding the kind of paralytic blindness these women exemplify in their "arguments." They seem to unfailingly gloss over every necessary distinction in pursuit of affirming their pre-determined positions.



Thank you!!! This is exactly the type of thing I was looking for! I wish this subject was given more attention by the SV clergy, as I seem to be seeing some being taken in with this argumentation.


Tue May 27, 2014 4:13 am
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New post Re: Teresa Stanfill Benns and the home alone defense
Sorry mate, I'm not reading her article. Extract a proposition that you find convincing with its proof, and post it and I will see what I have to say about it.

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Tue May 27, 2014 4:13 am
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New post Re: Teresa Stanfill Benns and the home alone defense
Yes the simplest refutation that I know of home aloners. Is this the Church is a perfect Society, that has everything that she needs to do Her Divine mission which is to preach the Gospel to all 4 corners of the world.

So what does that mean practically speaking?

1) The Gates of Hell will never prevail against Her, despite what might seem to be happening in the world. This promise is true until the parousia (second coming), and this means that the Church will always maintain those unique marks that has made her the True Church of Christ since the first Pentecost.

2) That means that no matter what legal quagmire you can come up with, the Church will always remain true and the hierarchy however diminished will always have the power to give the sacraments. The only time where some have speculatively said that this might not happen is during the actual reign of the anti-Christ. Which we know for certain is not right now, because those same individuals have said that in order for that to happen all true priest's will be murdered. Also 1/3 of the planet will be wiped, and none of that has happened. You also don't have the conversion of the ***s en masse. We know that it will last 3 1/2 years. Outside of this theological speculation, there is not one blip about the end of the mass/priests and vocations as we know it.

The problem is twofold with home aloners:
1) Some of them reject one of the four marks of the Church, its Apostolicity. They reject in principle the possibility that there is even one Bishop who has mantained his jurisdiction (I would venture to say most likely an underground Bishop). This is the position of many radical schismatics liek Ibryani, immaculate-one, and many other similar false zealots.

Ask them particularly, if they can provide any theological proof from Denzinger, Fathers, Doctor's or even on speculative theology that such a case scenario would ever happen, i.e. no more true Bishops in the world, and no more priests.

__________________________________

Here is some private correspondence with a home aloner that I had not too long ago. He was the one who contacted me and not the other way around, here is what I told him. He had 0 answers, he kept dodging and kept copy pasting certain passages of Denzinger. The key to the whole thing is to make them answer how their position is still compatible with the Nicene Creed, no matter how much gobbledygook they spit at you they have to prove that their doctrine is not something novel, but was something lets say predicted/magisterial/doctrinally sound etc... The problem with these folks is that they have 0 training in anything, and they put the burden of proof on you when they are the ones spitting on the faith, and trampling it by making claims that there are no more priest that one can recourse to in the whole world! I mean do they even self-conceptualize how serious this is! You would have to be metaphysically certain before you go out and tell anyone something like that. There has to be AMPLE proof, boatloads of it if this is something that is true. I copy pasted some of the correspondence that I thought is most relevant for your question.
________________________
This is in response to him calling Sedevacantism a "Smokescreen." What is funny is that he fails to see how he is also a sedevacantist by definition and he argues with me over this point! Dear Lord, save us!

Quote:
You are a sedevacantist, just like I am. Except your a schismatic, because you do not believe in the four marks of the Church.

There is no "smokescreen", you have not answered my question whatsoever.

Name me ONE citation of some approved Doctor, or teaching from the Extraordinary magisterium that posits a scenario like the one you are painting. Where all the masses in the world are not only invalid, but illicit to attend to.

All you do is dodge and move on to other points because the only thing that you can do is copy paste your own interpretations. You are a semi-Protestant, and how you fail to see it just simply shows you how deeply you have been deceived by your own self-righteousness. Your legalism is far worse then that of the Pharisee's, for in a time of the greatest spiritual turmoil the few springs of life that there are (sacraments), you would have people turn away from them.


It just shows that you fail to read my email, because I completely agree with St. Robert Bellarmine (Not Venerable), and Saint Antoninus on the subject. This is why I cannot in conscience follow the current anti-Pope Francis, who is the most recent claimant since Vatican II.

The burden of proof lies on you, and you cannot show any theological arguments for your case. Other then your own wicked interpretations of Denzinger. If you would read Vatican I and the minds of the Council Father's you would realize just how wrong your interpretation is, but you do not care about thinking with the mind of the Church. You only care about your own opinion. This is why you probably consider that we have not had any true Popes, since God knows when. Only a proud mad man can be able to think something tell it to another Catholic, and keep a straight face.

You must abjure your errors, and return to the faith. How can you recite the Nicene Creed and say that you honestly believe in it. When you do not believe that there is any valid priest or Bishops left in the world. I have already cited you several examples of Eastern Bishop's, and you can even look up in North Korea a missing Cardinal, also China. Many of these good Bishop's have never embraced Vatican II because they are underground. They have kept the purity of the faith in these dark times, but to your legalistic Phariseeistic mindset nothing will ever settle the question for you, because it matters little to you the reality of the current facts. Your opinion is settled, because I have already gone over this points with you previously in another email, I have also had a friend email the headmaster of that website before. You tried the same tactics of dodging the issue and question.

You are a heretic, and not a Catholic. Although, I might agree with you on many points with that website. It matter's little because he who departs on only one particular point of the faith is outside of the Church. You do not believe in the four marks of the Church, because the Church as you describe it is no longer Apostolic, period. There is no theological gobbledygook you can muster out of that serpent mouth of yours that can be able to save you from that reality. Any man with reason and faith can be able to see that you are clearly a heretic.

Repent, and you shall be saved. Go to confession to a validly ordained Catholic priest, and humbly confess your sins and heresies. Abjure and the Lord will forgive you. Your errors are so deeply rooted in pride.... The worst type of pride, that of the Pharisee's who could not see the work of God in front of their eyes, who set burden's on the consciences of the faithful that not even they kept themselves, who devoured the houses of widows.


He asks for some examples, so I give him a little.

Quote:
Remember the 7 Woe's that were said to the Pharisee's your spiritual Father's. Your Father is the devil, you have zero proof for diabolical theology.

In the Great Western Schism we had anti-Popes, and those anti-Popes appointed Bishop's etc... Even those appointments from those specific Bishop's were made licit by valid true popes, and they would have had their jurisdiction supplied because of the tacit approval from the Church.

The Church is a perfect society which has everything that she needs to fuflfill her Divine mandate from heaven, which is to teach all nations and baptize them In the Name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. That means that no matter what legal quagmire you can come up with, the Church will always remain true and the hierarchy however diminished will always have the power to give the sacraments. You will know when there is no more priest's left in the world, that is because they will all be murdered by the forces of the anti-Christ during his reign. That as you can see clearly as the light of day, has not happened.


In this he ask me to name who I think is a "Catholic" Bishop left in the world. He says that there is not one left in the world.

Quote:
"The four SSPX Bishops for example, and several independent Sedevacantist Catholic Bishops that come from the Thuc line.

There are also some Eastern Bishops who have kept enough of the faith that I know and have heard of personally.

It is not necessary for salvation to know who is sitting on the Throne of St Peter, what is necessary for salvation is to believe in the Dogmas associated for example Petrine Primacy and Supremacy etc... It would be ridiculous to add to the Nicene Creed One Holy Catholic and Sedevacantist Apostolic Church.

Sedevacantism is a theological conclusion, which is not binding to the Universal Church.So long as someone rejects the novelties of the Counterfeit Conciliar Church and retains belief in the Dogma's of the Church or has a desire to believe everything that the Church believes but might not know all of those specific teachings, he has retained the fullness of the faith. He would simply be a material heretic, for all the non-sense they have spoonfed them. I know many people like that, as soon as you start teaching them the truth of the Catholic faith they accept it and reject novelty. It simply takes the grace of God, and some patience to go through with them over all the specific points of heresy related to Vatican II etc...

I could also point out in North Korea, before the fall of the Eastern Wall. There were thousands of Catholic Bishops who even after the fall of the Eastern Wall, believed that the Communist were not done so they did not keep in touch with Rome. There are plenty of stories like that, lots of good books written on that subject. I am sure I have merely touched the surface with respect to that. Remember how some of these people suffered almost 80 years of terror, don't think that some of them never forgot that and stayed underground keeping the Catholic faith whole and entire.

Now explain to me how you can still remain a Catholic and say such non-sense? How are you not violating one of the four marks of the Church by believing the whole hierarchy has gone extinct for all tense and purposes. Please quote me one theology manual approved by the Church, especially if it is Thomist's that asserts your position as something plausible. I on the other hand have quite extensive material that proves to the contrary that excepting the reign of the Anti-Christ (when all priest will likely be murdered and the Catholic Sacrifice will cease entirely) we will still have priest's/Bishops. The problem is that I see perfectly licit ordinations and a valid rite, right profession of faith. There are plenty of priest whom I don't see murdered and are 100% Catholic anti-modernist to the core. How would you explain something like that?

Please don't respond with one sentence, I took my time to respond to you and have the decency to stop copy pasting and give an actual response that is intelligible.
"


By this point he is just copy pasting more quotes on heresy, jurisdiction etc...

Quote:
You have no idea how jurisdiction works and how heresy is applied.

It is a fact, FACT without a question of a doubt. Pick your eastern Bishop of choice, there were many underground Bishop's during the reign of Pius XII who were given permission from the Holy See to consecrate other Bishops without Papal mandate. It got so bad in some cases that they never informed the Holy See because the Communist continually would kill the Bishops that were known to the Holy See. So some Bishops thinking this was going to be a situation that would last forever consecrated other Bishops. These Bishops if still alive, would be Bishops of their corresponding see's to this day. If you would like for me to show you some books on the topic, some of the stories of these Bishop's.

It is not illogical then to conclude that these Bishop's (so long as they have not submitted to willful heresy) would retain their original jurisdiction during a period of Sedevacante. This has been confirmed by the past practice of the Church during the Great Western Schism, or during the 3 year Sedevacante period that the Church once had to go through. Where it is assumed as theologians teach that the tacit approval of the Church (that is for her survival), that all of these are LICIT acts of the Church. Since again as I have told you over and over again the Church is a perfect society, that will never lack anything she needs EVEN during the reign of the AntiChrist to fulfill her Divine Mission. So like in the case of Japan, without any priest. The only sacraments they had available were marriage and baptism, and if that is your scenario in your given location then do what you must to keep the faith. However, your scenario is that currently NOT even one licit Bishop or Priest on the planet. This is absolutely pure heresy. Big difference in one case it is circumstantial to time and place, in another you are talking about the Church of Christ having been defeated by the Gates of Hell. This is multiple heresies, it is a sin against faith particularly the indefectibility of the Church, the Apostolicity of the true Church of Christ etc...

I am still waiting for your answer to my question. I will wait for as long as you need. If you are correct about what you are talking about, then I am willing to change my position if you show me that what your doctrine teaches is the teaching of the Church. However, as I have amply proved that there needs to only be one Bishop in the world that has retained his original jurisdiction from Pius XII. All the other independent Bishop's are operating under the principle of epikea, the Salvation of Souls is the greatest law of the Church. Nothing supercedes this law, nothing. No pharisaical legalism can do nothing to stop the work of the Church, yes we might be in dark times but not as dark as you paint them to be.

The difference between you and me, is that we might have more limited priest's/Bishop's to recourse to, but you prefer to completely starve yourself from graces when you are capable of receiving them licitly. The Church supplies jurisdiction in these cases, for the sake of your eternal soul.

I hope that you can be able to see this, as I can see that you are definitely Orthodox Catholic in many things. However, it only takes one heresy to lose your soul. You seem to persist in your error, despite what anyone tells you. You have proven nothing to me, and you cannot expect for me to believe you as some oracle from God. You remind me very much of Richard Ibryani.

This Easter I had the grace to be able to attend the Liturgy and it was heavenly. To receive our Blessed Saviour in the most wonderful sacrament of His Love for us. He said that he will be with us, until the end of the world. There are still true priest and Bishop's doing the Lord's work, sure they might be in MUCH more limited numbers, but I guarantee you that if you drive enough hours in the U.S. you can get to a mass that is licit before the eyes of God. God is not seeking to throw us into Hell fire, especially during our dark times we need the sacraments more then ever, we live in such sinful times. The pestilence of the world is overwhelming, if you do not have refuge in His Most Sacred Heart, you will surely be lose in the darkness and pride of your heart.

I sincerely desire your conversion and salvation, you will be in my prayers. Go to mass and confess your sins, this will be the first step to cure your blindness of heart. Find a good holy Orthodox priest to guide your soul.


Hope that helps!

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Sat May 31, 2014 1:32 pm
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New post Re: Teresa Stanfill Benns and the home alone defense
I just wanted to remark that the essay that was linked about the Home-Alone position is excellent. I am not done with it, but it definitely is a death dealing blow of pure raw Catholic reasoning to minds that have no common sense left in them.

These minds have been perverted by legalism, and the worst thing is that they tend to be the most militant! I think all SV'ist should especially add these deluded souls into their daily prayers. They are certainly zealous, but true zeal is moderated by prudence. If only it was directed in the proper way, through the clergy and get their minds to submit to some pastor. No Doctor can self heal himself, this is why it is so important to have a priest to confess to. How easy it is for Catholics! To simply let oneself go in the confessional... In my humble opinion, no Catholic should be going to a professional psychiatrist when they have a priest available (severe cases exempted particularly when the problem is truly of a genetic nature). The health of the mind is directly proportional to Holiness of life, when one is truly following God's law you will be in the healthiest state of mind. When one is in the state of habitual mortal sin, one's intellect becomes completely darkened.

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Sat May 31, 2014 6:54 pm
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