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 Dealing with a person casting doubt on Pius XII 
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Joined: Wed Aug 07, 2013 4:10 pm
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New post Dealing with a person casting doubt on Pius XII
Well, I recently saw someone on FB trying to argue that the Liturgical Reforms in the 50s suggest that Pope Pius XII may have fallen from office as a heretic. :shock: Arguments about those reforms aside, I don't know quite how to react to this. My every instinct says that this is wrong, since there needs to be proof of manifest heresy on the part of the late pontiff for it to be true. How does one debunk that claim?


Sun Dec 08, 2013 9:04 pm
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New post Re: Dealing with a person casting doubt on Pius XII
I think you already have debunked it.

As for dealing with such people, why give them attention? That might suggest to them that their theory has sufficient merit to require an answer, when it doesn't. They would have to make their case as you have said, and they haven't.

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Sun Dec 08, 2013 10:53 pm
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New post Re: Dealing with a person casting doubt on Pius XII
True enough. I was just so startled that someone was seriously trying to argue that. In the girl's defense, she is rather new to being a traditional Catholic, and mainly took the word of a trusted friend. I responded once I saw another user expressing interest in the theory.

Thanks for the help (and reassurance that the response would be so simple).


Mon Dec 09, 2013 12:21 am
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New post Re: Dealing with a person casting doubt on Pius XII
Strange timing. I encountered a kind of jab against the orthodoxy of Pope Pius XII yesterday, citing -- of all things! -- Humani Generis:

Pope Pius XII. Humani Generis. wrote:
5. If anyone examines the state of affairs outside the Christian fold, he will easily discover the principle trends that not a few learned men are following. Some imprudently and indiscreetly hold that evolution, which has not been fully proved even in the domain of natural sciences, explains the origin of all things, and audaciously support the monistic and pantheistic opinion that the world is in continual evolution. Communists gladly subscribe to this opinion so that, when the souls of men have been deprived of every idea of a personal God, they may the more efficaciously defend and propagate their dialectical materialism….
36. For these reasons the Teaching Authority of the Church does not forbid that, in conformity with the present state of human sciences and sacred theology, research and discussions, on the part of men experienced in both fields, take place with regard to the doctrine of evolution, in as far as it inquires into the origin of the human body as coming from pre-existent and living matter - for the Catholic faith obliges us to hold that souls are immediately created by God. However, this must be done in such a way that the reasons for both opinions, that is, those favourable and those unfavourable to evolution, be weighed and judged with the necessary seriousness, moderation and measure, and provided that all are prepared to submit to the judgment of the Church, to whom Christ has given the mission of interpreting authentically the Sacred Scriptures and of defending the dogmas of faith.


The above passages were derided in a criticism: "rather than dismiss the theory of evolution as absolute scientific nonsense, the Pope ‘allows’ Catholics to believe it could be true, that evolution science had ‘favourable’ reasons to argue itself as a truth."

Which totally ignores the Pope's writing that the "research and discussions" RE evolution must be "in conformity with the present state of human sciences and sacred theology." Of course, authentic Catholic Theology could never stamp human evolution with any approval.

I'm left to wonder... what do such people as the cited disingenuous critic see to gain by trying to tarnish Pope Pius XII? It's like the beginning of an Ibranyi-esque mentality.

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Mon Dec 09, 2013 1:23 am
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