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 sedebenediciplenism /sˌɛdɪbənɪdˈɪsɪplˌiːnɪzəm/ 
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New post sedebenediciplenism /sˌɛdɪbənɪdˈɪsɪplˌiːnɪzəm/
proposed terminology:
sedebenediciplenism /sˌɛdɪbənɪdˈɪsɪplˌiːnɪzəm/ = the position where Benedict XVI is considered a true pope and Francis I is considered an anti-pope. Benedict XVI—initially not a true pope because of his leadership of the non-Catholic, schismatic Conciliar Church sect, although validly elected pope for the Catholic Church—became a true pope of the Catholic Church when he resigned his leadership role of the Conciliar Church on February 28, 2013. According to sedebenediciplenists, Benedict XVI did public penance for his ecumenical sins by promulgating Summorum Pontificum, un-"excommunicating" the SSPX bishops, disciplining LCWR and related groups, and supporting the SSPX; thus, he is no longer a heretic and can be and is a valid pope of the Catholic Church.

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Sun Oct 20, 2013 4:09 am
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New post Re: sedebenediciplenism /sˌɛdɪbənɪdˈɪsɪplˌiːnɪzəm/
Mr. Aversa,

Does anyone actually posit this theory?

It doesn't take into account
1) the fact that Fr. Ratzinger never attained valid episcopal consecration;
2) the widely-held concern (at least in Trad circles) that SP itself falsified the issue of the (effective) suppression of the true Mass;
3) the definition of "public penance";
4) the fact that the SSPX bishops & +de Castro Meyer were never in actuality excommunicated (one cannot lift a penalty never truly incurred, to suggest there was one to lift as opposed to addressing one which never existed is on its face disingenuous);
5) the body of Ratzingerian literature pre-and-post-nontificate which show the man's theology (if it can even be labeled as such) which show even apparently traditional actions he took to be solely for the consolidation of all "forms" of Catholic ritual (from high Tridentine to low Kiko-ist) as one and the same (which is ludicrous).

I thought I had seen everything, but this...!

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Thomas Williams


Sun Oct 20, 2013 8:47 am
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New post Re: sedebenediciplenism /sˌɛdɪbənɪdˈɪsɪplˌiːnɪzəm/
Thomas Williams wrote:
I thought I had seen everything, but this...!


:D

I'm sure it's a joke!

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Sun Oct 20, 2013 2:49 pm
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New post Re: sedebenediciplenism /sˌɛdɪbənɪdˈɪsɪplˌiːnɪzəm/
Ah, just noticed it's "proposed terminology" -- although if Bergoglio gets any worse, it might not be surprising to see a few folks from the group sometimes dubbed "Recognize & Resisters" adopt a version of it.

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Thomas Williams


Sun Oct 20, 2013 4:11 pm
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New post Re: sedebenediciplenism /sˌɛdɪbənɪdˈɪsɪplˌiːnɪzəm/
John Lane wrote:
I'm sure it's a joke!
We'll see. :)

_________________
«The Essence & Topicality of Thomism»: http://ar.gy/5AaP
by Fr. Réginald Garrigou-Lagrange, O.P.
e-Book: bit.ly/1iDkMAw

Modernism: modernism. us.to
blog: sententiaedeo.blogspot. com
Aristotelian Thomism: scholastic. us.to


Sun Oct 20, 2013 11:34 pm
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New post Re: sedebenediciplenism /sˌɛdɪbənɪdˈɪsɪplˌiːnɪzəm/
Thomas Williams wrote:
Does anyone actually posit this theory?
Yes, from what I've heard on CathInfo and Fisheaters, there are some in the "R&R crowd" who are supporting such a theory.
Thomas Williams wrote:
It doesn't take into account
1) the fact that Fr. Ratzinger never attained valid episcopal consecration;
Perhaps sedebenediciplenists also hold that he was occultly conditionally re-consecrated. :)
Thomas Williams wrote:
2) the widely-held concern (at least in Trad circles) that SP itself falsified the issue of the (effective) suppression of the true Mass;
3) the definition of "public penance";
What should this definition be, specifically?
Thomas Williams wrote:
4) the fact that the SSPX bishops & +de Castro Meyer were never in actuality excommunicated (one cannot lift a penalty never truly incurred, to suggest there was one to lift as opposed to addressing one which never existed is on its face disingenuous);
Which is why I put "excommunicating" in quotes.
Thomas Williams wrote:
5) the body of Ratzingerian literature pre-and-post-nontificate which show the man's theology (if it can even be labeled as such) which show even apparently traditional actions he took to be solely for the consolidation of all "forms" of Catholic ritual (from high Tridentine to low Kiko-ist) as one and the same (which is ludicrous).
Yes, right up to his resignation he certainly was persecuting tradition (e.g., dissolving the "dissident" branch of St. John Sisters).
Thomas Williams wrote:
I thought I had seen everything, but this...!
:)

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«The Essence & Topicality of Thomism»: http://ar.gy/5AaP
by Fr. Réginald Garrigou-Lagrange, O.P.
e-Book: bit.ly/1iDkMAw

Modernism: modernism. us.to
blog: sententiaedeo.blogspot. com
Aristotelian Thomism: scholastic. us.to


Sun Oct 20, 2013 11:41 pm
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New post Re: sedebenediciplenism /sˌɛdɪbənɪdˈɪsɪplˌiːnɪzəm/
Alan, I wrote the following this morning and went to work having forgotten to post it. :)
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Like all good jokes, it's based upon something real. For the first few months after Bergoglio appeared, the kind of people who loved Ratzinger (typically "Indult" types) were grieving deeply over the situation, and some of them even questioned (on Fisheaters) whether it were possible that Ratzinger's resignation were valid. :)

I loved one aspect of Alan's suggestion particularly - the notion that this Modernist became pope for the first time by resigning. Classic!

It's fascinating how the trad mind morphs with the change in the weather in Rome. For decades the standard argument against sedevacantism was that the Modernists weren't really heretics, but rather they were merely mistaken Catholics. We were told "don't be so willing to judge, you can't be sure..." And Ratzinger's veneer of Catholicity after the endless horror show of Wojtyla only served to reinforce this line of defence.

Oh how that has changed! Now we have Bishop Fellay openly describing the current claimant as a "genuine Modernist." He's a heretic, and nobody who knows their faith is in any real doubt about that. It's like he formed himself on Pascendi. He's so much an obvious Modernist that he's a caricature of one. Ratzinger is more of a classic Modernist, deceptive and clever. This bloke plays the buffoon.

So now we have a new species of non-sedevacantism. I would describe it as a quasi dogma formulated something like, "The Church must always have a pope, so Bergoglio is pope."* Appearances cannot influence such reasoning. They believe that there must always be a pope just like all Catholics believe in the Real Presence.




* Hang on, if Cristian and Monsignor Fenbton are right, it IS a dogma, a revealed truth taught as such by the Catholic Church, that the accepted claimant is pope... :D

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Mon Oct 21, 2013 10:36 am
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New post Re: sedebenediciplenism /sˌɛdɪbənɪdˈɪsɪplˌiːnɪzəm/
John Lane wrote:
Like all good jokes, it's based upon something real. For the first few months after Bergoglio appeared, the kind of people who loved Ratzinger (typically "Indult" types) were grieving deeply over the situation, and some of them even questioned (on Fisheaters) whether it were possible that Ratzinger's resignation were valid. :)


Indeed! Some even claimed so because there was a tiny mistake in the Latin discourse of Ratzinger`s "resignation"!

Quote:
I loved one aspect of Alan's suggestion particularly - the notion that this Modernist became pope for the first time by resigning. Classic!


I`m sure Chesterton woud have loved this! :)

Quote:
It's fascinating how the trad mind morphs with the change in the weather in Rome. For decades the standard argument against sedevacantism was that the Modernists weren't really heretics, but rather they were merely mistaken Catholics. We were told "don't be so willing to judge, you can't be sure..." And Ratzinger's veneer of Catholicity after the endless horror show of Wojtyla only served to reinforce this line of defence.

Oh how that has changed! Now we have Bishop Fellay openly describing the current claimant as a "genuine Modernist." He's a heretic, and nobody who knows their faith is in any real doubt about that. It's like he formed himself on Pascendi. He's so much an obvious Modernist that he's a caricature of one. Ratzinger is more of a classic Modernist, decpetive and clever. This bloke plays the buffoon.


So true!

Quote:
So now we have a new species of non-sedevacantism. I would describe it as a quasi dogma formulated something like, "The Church must always have a pope, so Bergoglio is pope."* Appearances cannot influence such reasoning. They believe that there must always be a pope just like all Catholics believe in the Real Presence.




* Hang on, if Cristian and Monsignor Fenton are right, it IS a dogma, a revealed truth taught as such by the Catholic Church, that the accepted claimant is pope... :D


Just revealed John, just revealed :D

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Leon Bloy


Mon Oct 21, 2013 11:56 am
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New post Re: sedebenediciplenism /sˌɛdɪbənɪdˈɪsɪplˌiːnɪzəm/
Apparently Romano Amerio's student Enrico Radaelli has already proposed something similar to sedebenediciplenism. Here's Radaelli's original paper (in Italian).

_________________
«The Essence & Topicality of Thomism»: http://ar.gy/5AaP
by Fr. Réginald Garrigou-Lagrange, O.P.
e-Book: bit.ly/1iDkMAw

Modernism: modernism. us.to
blog: sententiaedeo.blogspot. com
Aristotelian Thomism: scholastic. us.to


Mon Oct 21, 2013 7:41 pm
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