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Attending SSPX Masses as a Sedevacantist
http://sedevacantist.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1531
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Author:  Alan Aversa [ Tue Oct 08, 2013 4:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Attending SSPX Masses as a Sedevacantist

I know some sedevacantists here attend SSPX Masses. How do you justify that when they include praying for Francis in the Canon?

Author:  Ken Gordon [ Tue Oct 08, 2013 5:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Attending SSPX Masses as a Sedevacantist

Alan Aversa wrote:
I know some sedevacantists here attend SSPX Masses. How do you justify that when they include praying for Francis in the Canon?

There has been a long discussion on this very subject. Perhaps John can give you the link to it John's (and others') arguments seem cogent to me. However, I much prefer to ask the officiating priest not to mention the reigning anti-pope's name there. Most comply with that request. Of course, SSPX priests may not. In any case, I agree that what the priest says there most definitely does not effect me or my relationship with God.

Author:  Alan Aversa [ Tue Oct 08, 2013 5:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Attending SSPX Masses as a Sedevacantist

Ken Gordon wrote:
In any case, I agree that what the priest says there most definitely does not effect me or my relationship with God.
Couldn't you say that about indult Masses, too?

Author:  TKGS [ Tue Oct 08, 2013 6:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Attending SSPX Masses as a Sedevacantist

Alan Aversa wrote:
Ken Gordon wrote:
In any case, I agree that what the priest says there most definitely does not effect me or my relationship with God.
Couldn't you say that about indult Masses, too?


Perhaps you could. But could you definitely say that a real (valid) priest said Mass?

Author:  Alan Aversa [ Tue Oct 08, 2013 6:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Attending SSPX Masses as a Sedevacantist

TKGS wrote:
Alan Aversa wrote:
Ken Gordon wrote:
In any case, I agree that what the priest says there most definitely does not effect me or my relationship with God.
Couldn't you say that about indult Masses, too?


Perhaps you could. But could you definitely say that a real (valid) priest said Mass?
Yes, that certainly can be dubious for indult priests.

Author:  John Lane [ Tue Oct 08, 2013 11:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Attending SSPX Masses as a Sedevacantist

Alan, my view is there simply isn't any problem. I presume you've seen the article I wrote about it? http://strobertbellarmine.net/una_cum.html

I have pointed out many times that what those who disagree have to show is that some evil occurs with which the man in the pew is cooperating (unlawful per se), or at least is thought by others to be cooperating with (scandal). Fr. Cekada laughably answered by saying that attendance = presumed consent, which is true and nobody has ever questioned it. Of course we consent to the priest offering the mass, and all that is essential to that act. But do we necessarily consent to every particular circumstance? Take his choice of Proper for the day: is the layman in the pew deemed to agree with that choice? Would anybody think that were the case, merely by the layman assisting at the mass? Obviously not. In the case of the pope's name, the priest is doing his duty and mentioning in the proper place, silently, the name of the man he believes to be pope. So the act is a virtuous one. Even if the layman in the pew were deemed to consent to that act, which I do not think is the case, surely the layman is consenting to a virtuous act, which itself is virtuous. There's just nothing wrong there. In my opinion, the priest makes a mistake of fact, an understandable one at that. And I am supposed to find some great evil in this?

So the point remains unanswered. Bishop Sanborn attempted to do so years before by simply asserting that what occurs is objectively a sacrilege and that everybody present takes responsibility for everything that the priest does and says at the altar, but he didn't prove it and could not do so. In any case against his argument we can cite a direct authority, De la Taille, who says that even the masses of schismatics are offered by the Church. Bishop Sanborn has no authorities at all for his view, merely his own ipse dixit. As I've said, Bishop Sanborn would call a man who falls off a cliff a "material suicide" and say that objectively speaking the culprit ought to be in hell.

Author:  Ken Gordon [ Wed Oct 09, 2013 1:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Attending SSPX Masses as a Sedevacantist

Alan Aversa wrote:
Ken Gordon wrote:
In any case, I agree that what the priest says there most definitely does not effect me or my relationship with God.
Couldn't you say that about indult Masses, too?

I couldn't...and wouldn't...

As I have repeatedly stated here, in my carefully considered opinion, the validity of the orders of any man "ordained" after 1969 are immediately suspect.

I am talking about certainly-validly-ordained priests, not those dubious ones.

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