May I avail myself to a sedeplenist priest who was ordained, sub conditione, by Bp. Patrick Taylor, who runs an independent sedeplenist traditionalist group? The said priest was possibly ordained in the 1970s. Fr. Cekada touched on this issue a bit in his article Untrained and Un-Tridentine, but I would like to know, since I would be able to receive our Lord and confess this coming Sunday.

The priest does not follow the rubrics perfectly. He waits for the congregation to chant the Kyrie and other parts of the Mass, does not know how he should chant the epistle, collect, and gospel, and his latin is not as good as others. Another issue I have is the hosts he use, which seem different from the hosts I normally receive, but which I trust are valid matter.

I know the said priest personally, and he was semi-indpendent. He seems to associate with independent sedeplenists, such as Taylor and Merrill Adamson, who, I was told, embraced sedevacantism. The said priest is now associated with the Novus Ordo diocese, and says three Masses each Sunday throughout the area. The rubrical errors and mishaps are there, but I do not think they are that bad that I should stay away. Any advice would be appreciated.

Be very, very, cautious with this type, even when sure of their orders (which I would not be).

Can you really not find any other priest within striking distance?

Mr. Lane,
Due to my personal situation, this might be one of the few times that I can possibly confess and receive communion. The Mass begins in an hour, and at times I feel I should confess and receive, and a minute later I think I ought not to. This priest is not vagans at the moment, as he has been regularized with the "diocese." I have spoken about my personal situation with forum member Cristian Jacob, and would like to discuss it with you, Mr. Daly, or Mr. Gordon if any of you gentlemen are willing.

PS the "best" amongst clerics of this line would be Bp. Terence Fulham, in my humble, uneducated opinion.

I have found this on the bishop who sub conditione ordained the priest in question

This is quite a peculiar case, as it involves a NO cleric who had himself ordained sub conditione and who is diocesan.

Yes. It is all very peculiar. As far as our discussing your particular situation with you, I am very hesitant for several reasons.

Not only would I find it difficult due to the fact that there is no way I can really adequately understand your particular situation, but there is also the fact that I and my family have always been extremely reserved, cautious in fact, when dealing with priests and/or bishops who arrive at their orders via any route other than what we would consider "direct".

Our Lord told us that anyone who enters the sheepfold by any other way than the door is the same as a thief or a robber.

This, of course, must, perforce, include all of the so-called "traditional" bishops, none of whom are really successors of the Apostles, and none of whom really have any valid jurisdiction. This must also include any priests ordained by them, although the situation with the priests is, in my opinion, somewhat less important.

Although we cannot say at this instant in time what we may be forced to do in the very near future, at this point we work very hard to receive the Sacraments from, and attend the Masses of, only old, "retired" priests, of the validity of whose orders we are absolutely certain, and who have at least some inkling of the present terribly grave situation of the Church.

The youngest of these whom we know personally is 76. All the rest are well over 80 years old and cannot possibly live much longer. Once they're gone, we have no idea what we are going to do. I might add that ALL of those such priests we know have been horribly persecuted by their NO "bishops" because they will only offer the Tridentine Mass now.

One of the first principles we observe absolutely is that if any man has been ordained after 1969, to us, his orders are instantly suspect. What this means is that he must be at least 68 years old this year. (2012-1969=43+25=68).

About the only suggestion I would like to make to you is for you to carefully investigate the possibility that there is some old, retired priest near you who will agree to say the Tridentine Mass and provide the Sacraments for you and anyone else you can bring with you. However, if you do decide to try this, you must be EXTREMELY careful to NOT bring any sort of attention about him to the NO in ANY WAY!

You would have to be extremely discreet about this.

I really wish all of us would read as least two books which would give us a clearer idea of what we are facing: 1) Diary (or Autobiography) of a Hunted Priest by Fr. John Gerard, and 2) Campion by Evelyn Waugh.

I can also suggest several other, more modern, books which cover many of the same issues.

I would like to add that I firmly believe that by any of us searching out any old, "retired' priest who will offer the Tridentine Mass, we are doing as much, or more, good for him as we would be doing for ourselves.

Many such men are heartbroken at what has happened to the Church. For some, there is possibly no greater gift you can give them than to allow them to practice what they became priests for.

Remember that, for one thing, in most such cases their jurisdiction has never been taken away from them by any legitimate authority. Many of them still reside in the dioceses in which they were last incardinated, and thus still retain all their lawful faculties.

Lastly, I firmly believe that many of the priests who have fallen away did so because we lay-people did not pray enough for them. Therefore, we should pray for them now.

I have heard this before, that is, that the Holy See has kept records of independent bishops for years before the council and that the Vatican still does. Does anyone have direct knowledge that this is a true statement? After all, how many "independent bishops" were there before the Council? This just seems a little incredible to me.

If the Vatican still keeps such records (and I wonder how they would keep them up to date as I would kind of doubt that every (or even many) independent traditional consecration is reported to the Vatican) are those records able to be accessed by the public?

TKGS,

I'm with you. It's one of those unsupported claims that one sees at every turn from "Old Catholics" and those associated with them. And Gagnon investigated? Oh goodie!

Phillipus, you should find a priest you can trust (e.g. Fr. Joseph Collins, Albany, NY), and discuss your situation with him. Laymen can't advise you as a priest can.