Censored comment on Rorate Coeli: on Newman & sedeplenists

Felipe Coelho · Sun Feb 19, 2012 2:35 am

Dear Friends, Salve Maria!

A most curious thing just happened.

A very simple comment, made with all the restraint I could muster, and focused solely on facts accompanied by proper citation of sources, was abruptly deleted just now, after being approved for a few hours in that pseudonymous blog, Rorate Coeli.

I'd made it in answer to Fr. Cekada's commentary there, regarding Prof. de Mattei's recent defense of Mgr Gherardini:
http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2012/0 ... rdini.html

May I share it with you? Here it is:

Quote:

Dear Father,

Perhaps the soundness of Prof. de Mattei's "third way" might be judged from his last book, "Apologia della Tradizione", where on page 26 he quotes approvingly the following statement by then Father John Henry Newman:

«I mean still, that in that time of immense confusion the divine dogma of our Lord's divinity was proclaimed, enforced, maintained, and (humanly speaking) preserved, far more by the "Ecclesia docta" than by the "Ecclesia docens;" that the body of the Episcopate was unfaithful to its commission, while the body of the laity was faithful to its baptism; that at one time the pope, at other times a patriarchal, metropolitan, or other great see, at other times general councils, said what they should not have said, or did what obscured and compromised revealed truth; while, on the other hand, it was the Christian people, who, under Providence, were the ecclesiastical strength of Athanasius, Hilary, Eusebius of Vercellæ, and other great solitary confessors, who would have failed without them...»
(cf. the Italian translation present in the Professor's book quoted in:
http://blog.messainlatino.it/2011/11/ap ... to-de.html )

Too bad for the commendable historian's incursion in theology, this is the precise paragraph for which Newman was accused of heresy in Rome by Franzelin among others, and which Newman himself retracted, saying among other things:

«That "the body of Bishops failed in their confession of the faith," p. 17. Here, if the word "body" is used in the sense of the Latin "corpus," as "corpus" is used in theological treatises... certainly this would be a heretical statement.
[...]
That "general councils said what they should not have said, and did what obscured and compromised revealed truth." Here again the question to be determined is what is meant by the word "general." If I meant by "general" ecumenical, I should have spoken as no Catholic can speak...»
(Cf. transcription in: http://www.newmanreader.org/works/arians/note5.html
Cf. scanned original in: http://www.archive.org/stream/ariansA2i ... h/Appendix ).

Please remember me in your prayers.

In JMJ,
Felipe Coelho

What could be objectionable in any of this? For a Catholic that puts doctrine in front of ecclesiastical politics, that is...

Anyway, perhaps it was mostly the fault of a troublemaker there, a SSPX sectarian signing "Ecclesia militans," who accused me of "manipulating the facts" (?!). So I wrote the following short answer, but even before I could send it, my previous comment and part of his answer to me were deleted...

[Only this astonishing piece of nonsense remains there afloat, with no longer any connection to anything else:
"Ecclesia Militans said... Maybe the reason Prof. de Mattei used that statement was that, taking into account those exagerations of Card. Newman, there is much truth in these words, and much to be applied to the present times."]

For the record, here's my never published final answer:

Quote:

Dear Sir, Salve Maria!

I'm sorry, I have no interest in discussing these matters with you, nor do I think the Rorate Coeli staff would like me to.

The only reason I take the trouble of writing this is to let you know that I have translated the whole of this retraction of Newman's to the Portuguese language and published it online a few months ago, which would be really strange if I wanted to distort anything, as you absurdly accuse me by pointing me to the very link I gave you.

But please feel free to go on thinking that Prof. De Mattei, and the many traditionalist sites that cited that Newman quote before him, intend to apply it neither to Councils that they consider Oecumenical, nor to what they judge to be the Body of Bishops (= the Ecclesia docens, = the Pope + the Bishops in union with the Pope)...

In JMJ, FC

Really amusing!

In JMJ,
Felipe Coelho

Censored comment on Rorate Coeli: on Newman & sedeplenists

Who is online